Interview with Augusto Veroni Journalist of CORRIERE DELLA SERA

- Let’s be honest: to doubt that it’s an April Fool, or a huge joke is more than allowed. Because the news is that on April 1st 2006 Guido Mondani puts his own collection of 298 Rolex watches, one of the most prestigious ever to be assembled, up for auction. April 1st? Mondani, really him, one of the most ferociously strict and meticulous collectors in the world sells his collection? It comes naturally to say: who can believe it?

I must confess that I don’t like writing this type of article because it seems set up to celebrate in a non critical manner, a commercial event, but in this case curiosity got the better of me: I’m not interested in the commercial side (it will undoubtedly be a success, but this is secondary for me) but rather in the motivations of Mondani e Patrizzi. The first, because as far as I am aware, he isn’t looking for cash as he doesn’t need it because his editorial activity is quietly growing. The second, because he would have derived greater benefit if he had waited a little more so as to coincide with the Rolex centenary which will be celebrated in 2008.
I’ve known Osvaldo Patrizzi for about twenty years and know that his activity has always been a strange and pleasurable compromise between amusement and passion and obviously looking to make money.

In fact, for those who know him, it is often evident that profit is a side product of amusement and passion, even when he wants you to believe otherwise. It is also for this reason that I accepted to write this article: this auction is absolutely anomalous. If I had to reduce it all into a simple headline, the synthesis would say that the most renowned Rolex collector and owner of the only auction house specialised in watches organise “the sale of the century” at the wrong time. However, given that neither Patrizzi nor Mondani can be suspected of doing something so stupid or of being so grossly distracted, it is clear that there is something else behind it all and it is exactly this “something else” which makes me curious: an irresistible temptation for all good journalists. As we will see, the argument of this interview is the satisfaction of this curiosity.
Mondani’s collection isn’t just a simple collection of more or less prestigious watches, but something quite different. To start with, Mondani who began just like any other collector, almost by chance, has been known for a considerable time to be a researcher, a sort of archaeologist of everything regarding Rolex, not just the watches. So much so (they would deny it: you can be sure) that a Rolex employee on an occasion when contacted, admitted that in certain cases, Mondani knows things which they don’t and they themselves are interested in the material and watches in his collection and (but this is really whispered) that often they aren’t able to give him all the information he requires because nobody has asked the difficult questions he does. And still in secret confessional mode, yes perhaps something could be interesting for a Rolex museum which doesn’t exist or perhaps won’t exist, but who knows…

A restaurant in the centre of Milan, the vigilant eye of Osvaldo Patrizzi, who for Mondani is a firm reference point if not a true friend for many years.

Yes, since the book in ’92 we worked on a document which then became part of my collection: catalogues, advertising information…. All that I’ve found. At that time it was the first time that real documentation concerning Rolex was published, which then became part of my collection. Advertising material, gadgets, vintage advertising…. Patrizzi has also convinced me that I’ve to put this material into the auction.

- It will be positive for the market: greater awareness means greater appreciation. The auction catalogue itself will become important, it will become a collector item…
I imagine so but for me this isn’t the point: awareness.

- So why ever did you choose as the object of your passion watches of a brand renowned for not giving away information even under torture?
Yes, perhaps it’s really this aspect which increases the charm of Rolex, a brand which has nothing to hide (and of this I’m certain after all these years of studying), but tries to hide all it can. It speaks with its watches and the communication seems to stop there. They’ve always been very kind to me and I must say that they’ve removed many doubts. It’s true it hasn’t been easy, but I believe that they’ve understood that I didn’t need the information for any use other than that which they would have considered correct, but that I was essentially trying to avoid buying a single watch which, based on the information available wasn’t “genuine” and not even partially modified. They understood that this for me was a fundamental condition. At the end of the day it’s a sort of intransigence, in terms of quality which has always been one of their main characteristics..

- An inevitable question: how did it all start?
It all began with a watch which was given to me as a present by my wife. It often happens in this way. By pure chance.

- I don’t know of any collector who didn’t start like that. But what was it that set you off, passion or the desire to acquire a profound knowledge base, above and beyond what is considered general understanding?
NI don’t know, the charm, the virility of these watches, their fame….Fortunately, at the end of the Eighties, Rolex watches didn’t cost much…
Patrizzi, who tries to interrupt as little as possible, can’t hold back: “That’s not true, Rolex watches have always been expensive. The other brands increased in price afterwards. He is trying to justify an expensive passion, just like a true Genovese (the Italian equivalent of a frugal Scotsman).”
After all my collection has turned out to be an excellent investment…

- This is the way that many collectors justify their passion: the investment. I didn’t pay much for them and now they are worth a lot. What about the price of time and emotions? How much are time and emotions worth, how much is patient information research worth?
Yes it’s true… I’ve always felt the need to dig deep down, to go beyond because I only wanted “genuine” watches. I’ve always known how to renounce before a doubt…

- And have you never come across an” imitation” or even a fake watch?
Whenever I had the slightest doubt I stopped myself from buying it even if I really liked the watch. I took time to gather information, to do the research, and even if I liked the watch I wouldn’t buy it unless I was certain that it was totally genuine and complete. Even a crown from a different series is enough to make me consider the watch unacceptable.
Yes, I’ve often heard at auctions a reference made to the watch “refused by Mondani”. Some people have used this as a good reason to refuse it, whilst others have thrown themselves upon it.
Well, there will have been other victims because there are a lot of Rolex watches around to avoid. Some will have saved money certain they were getting a bargain…. Even if I am from Genoa I never tried to look for a bargain because I know it doesn’t make sense. Petty traffickers, that’s what they are…This is why I’m really pleased to be considered a reference point for collectors and to know that a watch coming from my collection is positively considered because I have always carried out a fierce selection. If I can give some advice to collectors, it is exactly that of knowing when to hold back in the case of a minimal doubt about the authenticity or integrity of the watch. Osvaldo Patrizzi and other experts have been my reference points so as to be able to make a truly strict selection. I only look for true loves …

- Talking about Osvaldo, we all know how much of a tempting devil he is, who knows how to use a smile and endless patience to convince someone to collaborate even if they don’t want to. Now you’re about to sell your collection, twenty years of your life. Doesn’t that hurt?
Yes. Yes. One day I tell myself that I’ve done the right thing and the next I ask myself what have I done…. I was recently tempted to buy a Moon Phase Rolex and then stopped because I’m selling….I need to detox and I managed to stop myself, but the passion still remains. Perhaps I was doing something foolish as I remembered the first watch of my collection the “number one”. But I’m only selling the watches: the emotions and the acquired knowledge remain part of my own personal patrimony.

- The “number one”….You’ll also sell that one?
Yes, the one with the gold case, but perhaps I’ll buy it back, perhaps I’ll regret it at the last minute and I won’t be able to resist…Yes, it’s true, a collection isn’t just a group of objects, it’s more, much more. I admit that it goes way beyond it’s selling value.

- And afterwards? What will you do?
I don’t really know, I haven’t thought about it yet.

- Don’t tell me that you are going to abandon collecting and you’ll start gathering daisies. I have the impression that you’ve got something in mind…
Yes it’s true. I’m studying, and perhaps the sale of the collection is the beginning of something new, you’re right. I’m studying a new area, I’m in a reflective phase… I’m a little bit confused because the thought of being deprived of my collection after twenty years of research, journeys and suffering….Yes, I’ll certainly begin again or with a theme or…..I don’t know, but I do know that Rolex is still important and I don’t intend to waste the patrimony of knowledge which I have so arduously accumulated.

- In other words: just like an archaeologist who intends to concentrate on the “ excavation area” in the hope of finding the “treasure”?
Perhaps so… I’m certainly still looking for something…

- The impression is that in the end, the intellectual aspect of the research is prevailing over the possession of objects, over “typical” collecting. Perhaps you are choosing to investigate: about a limited period of Rolex history, or type of watch, perhaps the sense of research is prevailing.
Yes, but I’ll never say what it’s about because I anyway have the intention to keep on buying watches, to complete the study phase with “trials” of these studies. And because I’m quite well known in the world and it finishes that the prices increase….But yes it’s true, this sale marks a moment of transformation for myself from collector into something else in which the collecting aspect is only part...

- Will you be there to watch the dispersion of your collection?
Yes, I’ll be there to suffer. And from the moment the condition was to sell the whole collection, but I don’t want to be without some of the watches, I’ll probably buy back something ….If for nothing else in order to limit the suffering…
Patrizzi, the tempting devil, intervenes again: “I’m also a collector of pendulum clocks and I cannot ever imagine to relinquish my collection. Certain times I tell myself that I haven’t got enough space, that it is sheer madness to continue, but I could never sell….”
Mondani smiles: “Sooner or later you’ll find your Patrizzi who will convince you…”

- Let’s go back to the auction. Everything would seem to suggest that it’s going to be a great success.
Yes, it’s going to be a rich auction, but not just for the watches: I’m sure of that, the example for which I travelled one hundred kilometres by car just to buy the crown with the correct winding mechanism, as the one mounted on the watch wasn’t perfectly conserved…

- Ah yes: the problem concerning spare parts. A big problem.
At one time it was less difficult, whilst now it is almost impossible because, in order to stop the creation of fake or “imitation” watches, Rolex doesn’t supply spare parts, at least only to licensees, and then almost always only for relatively recent watches, as prescribed by law. It is very difficult to find original spare parts which allow the philological restoration of a watch. But even in this case it is the same as before: it is necessary to but only “genuine” watches which are in technically perfect state. Otherwise it is better to leave it alone also because or one chooses to reinforce the restoration, or it is necessary to go to those few technicians who are able to make the spare part using artisan techniques. But in this case the restoration costs go through the roof. This is also why many, too many Rolex watches are in circulation which it would be better to avoid…. It is necessary to thoroughly examine the watch before buying it. Perhaps this is also why my collection is of particular value: when I have intervened I’ve always tried to obtain the collaboration of experts and Rolex itself in order to always respect every example in my collection and to bring it back to how it was in its era.

- Well then, someone from Rolex, collaborated…
Yes, but it only concerned information in order to be sure about a watch or in order to create a respectful restoration.

- If you didn’t received no collaboration with regard to spare parts it is right to suppose that you have some non functioning movements in order to obtain them, intending the spare parts.
Absolutely not: neither spare parts nor movements. Otherwise Osvaldo would have convinced me to sell those as well…I won’t have anything left.

- You must have good technical skills I imagine, in order to buy only “genuine” watches. Because it is necessary to open them in order to carefully examine them.
Yes, I know how to open them, but I’ve always preferred to trust the opinions of experts: never trust your own opinion because an expert knows more and isn’t blinded by the passion which often happens to collectors.

- What do you think about Rolex, from a technical point of view?
It’s incredible how many quality watches they make. What I mean is that Rolex has always known how to produce many watches but at a quality level which no one else can manage to reach. Practically, the quality level of Rolex can only be reached by semi-artisan companies (“With the exception of Omega, in a certain sense” adds Patrizzi), but if the production is quantitatively less and qualitatively the same the costs are divided between a smaller number of units and the prices increase. This characteristic is what makes Rolex truly unique. There is also a total strictness on all quality levels which is imposed by Rolex itself and in order to protect the quality it is prepared to sacrifice the number of units produced, which isn’t totally limited, but always seems insufficient with respect to the level of market demand. I’m sure that in all these years, that the number of watches produced is really determined by the possibility to meet the desired quality standards and not for any other reason. If they hadn’t found the techniques to produce many highest quality watches they would have produced less, I’m sure.

- In which period would we find the moment when Rolex began to become a reference point for the entire watch making industry?
I believe that already the automatics in the 30s were extraordinary. (In those years, adds Osvaldo, Rolex watches were the only ones which were completely accurate, also due to the impermeable protection of the movement from dust and moisture. It was in the 30s and due to its trustworthiness that the Rolex myth began. Today many believe that it is a marketing ploy which has allowed Rolex to become a status symbol, but the name, the good name comes from the fact that they were reliable, it comes from their trustworthiness. And no one was able to produce better watches at better prices, neither in the past nor in the present). And also, that which is requested of Rolex watches isn’t requested of other watches. I have other makes, just a few, but with Rolex I’m sure, you can change the tyres on the car or do anything which would kill any other watch…. You can rely on Rolex. This is another reason for which there are only a few people who really don’t like Rolex watches. Some say they don’t like them, but they are just saying that to go against the tide at any cost: at the end of the day, if they know something about watch making, they will realise that the quality/price relationship of Rolex continues to be unbeatable for at least eighty years.

- I imagine that there are some “favourite” examples in your collection?
Yes certainly. Why?

- How will you feel when they are sold?
Well, given that I’ll be there suffering, I’ll be concentrating on seeing who they go to, if they are sold in the auction room. I would like to know who the best pieces go to.

- Will you hate the buyers of your favourite watches?
No, not really: I’ll be very happy for them. I really do believe that all those who buy watches from my collection will do good business because I’ve always made a careful selection, as those watches are also the result of my experience in research and choice which I’ve accumulated in twenty years. For me, my collection has always not just had a quantitative meaning but above all a qualitative one and those which have become part of my collection, each single watch of the 298 is a stupendous watch of its kind. A truly irreproachable quality example.

- Excuse me if I insist: in order to examine the watches it is necessary to open them but in order to open them it is necessary to have the original “keys” which enable you to open the back without ruining it. Do you have these keys?
Yes, certainly.

- And are they going up for auction?
NNo, actually not.

- So your love story with Rolex is set to continue, that’s clear….


Augusto Veroni